What Do You Think?

[John.hergy]

This should be interesting to see what happens . . .
Not only from "peaceful" The Muslim world, but also The U.S. Government.

copied from:
Pressure rises on pastor who wants to burn Quran

By MITCH STACY, Associated Press Writer Mitch Stacy, Associated Press Writer

GAINESVILLE, Fla. – The government turned up the pressure Tuesday on the head of a small Florida church who plans to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11, warning him that doing so could endanger U.S. troops and Americans everywhere.

But the Rev. Terry Jones insisted he would go ahead with his plans, despite criticism from the top U.S. general in Afghanistan, the White House and the State Department, as well as a host of religious leaders.

Jones, who is known for posting signs proclaiming that Islam is the devil's religion, says the Constitution gives him the right to publicly set fire to the book that Muslims consider the word of God.

Gen. David Petraeus warned Tuesday in an e-mail to The Associated Press that "images of the burning of a Quran would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan — and around the world — to inflame public opinion and incite violence." It was a rare example of a military commander taking a position on a domestic political matter.

Jones responded that he is also concerned but is "wondering, 'When do we stop?'" He refused to cancel the protest set for Saturday at his Dove World Outreach Center, a church that espouses an anti-Islam philosophy.

"How much do we back down? How many times do we back down?" Jones told the AP. "Instead of us backing down, maybe it's to time to stand up. Maybe it's time to send a message to radical Islam that we will not tolerate their behavior."

Still, Jones said he will pray about his decision.

State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said the administration hoped Americans would stand up and condemn the church's plan.

"We think that these are provocative acts," Crowley said. "We would like to see more Americans stand up and say that this is inconsistent with our American values; in fact, these actions themselves are un-American."

Meeting Tuesday with religious leaders to discuss recent attacks on Muslims and mosques around the U.S., Attorney General Eric Holder called the planned burning both idiotic and dangerous, according to a Justice Department official. The official requested anonymity because the meeting was private.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton added her disapproval at a dinner Tuesday evening in observance of Iftar, the breaking of the daily fast during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

"I am heartened by the clear, unequivocal condemnation of this disrespectful, disgraceful act that has come from American religious leaders of all faiths," Clinton said.

At the White House, spokesman Robert Gibbs echoed the concerns raised by Petraeus. "Any type of activity like that that puts our troops in harm's way would be a concern to this administration," Gibbs told reporters.

Jones said he has received more than 100 death threats and has started wearing a .40-caliber pistol strapped to his hip.

The 58-year-old minister said the death threats started not long after he proclaimed in July that he would stage "International Burn-a-Quran Day." Supporters have been mailing copies of the Islamic holy text to his church to be incinerated in a bonfire.

Jones, who has about 50 followers, gained some local notoriety last year when he posted signs in front of his small church declaring "Islam is of the Devil." But his Quran-burning scheme attracted wider attention. It drew rebukes from Muslim nations and an avalanche of media interview requests just as an emotional debate was taking shape over the proposed Islamic center near the ground zero site of the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York.

The Quran, according to Jones, is "evil" because it espouses something other than biblical truth and incites radical, violent behavior among Muslims.

"It's hard for people to believe, but we actually feel this is a message that we have been called to bring forth," he said last week. "And because of that, we do not feel like we can back down."

Muslims consider the Quran to be the word of God and insist it be treated with the utmost respect, along with any printed material containing its verses or the name of Allah or the Prophet Muhammad. Any intentional damage or show of disrespect to the Quran is deeply offensive.

Jones' Dove Outreach Center is independent of any denomination. The church follows the Pentecostal tradition, which teaches that the Holy Spirit can manifest itself in the modern day. Pentecostals often view themselves as engaged in spiritual warfare against satanic forces.

At first glance, the church looks like a warehouse rather than a place of worship. A stone facade and a large lighted cross adorn the front of the beige steel building, which stands on 20 acres in Gainesville's leafy northern suburbs. Jones and his wife, Sylvia, live on the property and also use part of it to store furniture that they sell on eBay.

A broad coalition of religious leaders from evangelical, Roman Catholic, Jewish and Muslim organizations met in Washington on Tuesday and condemned the plan to burn the Quran as a violation of American values.

"This is not the America that we all have grown to love and care about," said Rabbi Steve Gutow of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs. "We have to stand up for our Muslim brothers and sisters and say, "This is not OK.'"

FBI agents have visited with Jones to discuss concern for his safety. Multiple Facebook pages with thousands of members have popped up hailing him as a hero or blasting him as a dangerous pariah.

The world's leading Sunni Muslim institution of learning, Al-Azhar University in Egypt, accused the church of stirring up hate and discrimination, and called on other American churches speak out against it.

Last month, Indonesian Muslims demonstrated outside the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta, threatening violence if Jones goes through with it.

In this progressive Florida city of 125,000 anchored by the sprawling University of Florida campus, the lanky preacher with the bushy white mustache is mostly seen as a fringe character who doesn't deserve special attention.

At least two dozen Christian churches, Jewish temples and Muslim organizations in Gainesville have mobilized to plan inclusive events — some will read from the Quran at their own weekend services — to counter what Jones is doing. A student group is organizing a protest across the street from the church on Sept. 11.

Gainesville's new mayor, Craig Lowe, who during his campaign became the target of a Jones-led protest because he is openly gay, has declared Sept. 11 Interfaith Solidarity Day in the city.

Jones dismisses the response of the other churches as "cowardly." He said even if they think burning Qurans is extreme, Christian ministers should be standing with him in denouncing the principles of Islam.

All the attention has caused other problems for Jones, too. He believes it's the reason his mortgage lender has demanded full payment of the $140,000 still owed on the church property. He's seeking donations to cover it, but recently listed the property for sale with plans to eventually move the church away from Gainesville.

The fire department has denied Jones a required burn permit for Sept. 11, but he said lawyers have told him his right to burn Qurans is protected by the First Amendment, with or without the city's permission.

The same would hold true, he said, if Muslims wanted to burn Bibles in the front yard of a mosque.

"Of course, I would not like it," Jones said. But "I definitely would not threaten to kill them, as we have been threatened."

[John.hergy]

copied from:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100908/pl_nm/us_usa_muslims_sept11_6#mwpphu-container


Religious leaders condemn "anti-Muslim" frenzy

By David Alexander David Alexander

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. religious leaders on Tuesday condemned an "anti-Muslim frenzy" in the United States, including plans by a Florida church to burn a Koran on September 11, an act a top general said could endanger American troops abroad.

Christian, Muslim and Jewish religious leaders denounced the "misinformation and outright bigotry" against U.S. Muslims resulting from plans to build a Muslim community center and mosque not far from the site of the September 11, 2001, hijacked plane attacks in New York by the Islamist militant group al Qaeda that killed 2,752 people.

Tensions have risen with the approach of both the September 11 anniversary on Saturday and the Muslim eid al-Fitr festival that marks the close of the fasting month of Ramadan, which is expected to end around Friday.

Passions have been further inflamed by Terry Jones, the pastor of a 30-person church in Gainesville, Florida, who has announced plans to burn a Koran on Saturday, the ninth anniversary of the September 11 attacks. Jones says he wants to "expose Islam" as a "violent and oppressive religion."

Religious leaders, including Washington Roman Catholic Archbishop emeritus Cardinal Theodore McCarrick and Dr. Michael Kinnamon of the National Council of Churches, released a statement saying they were "alarmed by the anti-Muslim frenzy" and "appalled by such disrespect for a sacred text."

"To attack any religion in the United States is to do violence to the religious freedom of all Americans," said the religious leaders, including Rabbi David Saperstein, head of the Union for Reform Judaism, and Rabbi Julie Schonfeld of the Association of Conservative Rabbis.

"The threatened burning of copies of the Holy Qu'ran this Saturday is a particularly egregious offense that demands the strongest possible condemnation by all who value civility in public life and seek to honor the sacred memory of those who lost their lives on September 11," they said.

The planned Koran-burning by the Dove World Outreach Center has already prompted protests in Kabul. Several hundred Afghans -- mostly students from religious schools -- gathered outside the Milad ul-Nabi mosque and chanted "Death to America" in anger over the plans.

General David Petraeus, the head of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan, said in a statement the Koran burning could "endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort" to stabilize the Afghan situation.

"It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems, not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community," Petraeus said.

UN-AMERICAN ACTIONS

President Barack Obama's administration made clear that it deplored the planned event, which State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley described as "un-American."

"I am heartened by the clear and unequivocal condemnation of this disrespectful, disgraceful act that has come from American religious leaders of all faiths," Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told American Muslims at the State Department as she hosted an Iftar, the meal at which Muslims break their daily fast during the month of Ramadan.

Attorney General Eric Holder, the top U.S. law enforcement official, called the planned Florida event "idiotic" during a closed-door meeting with a small group of religious leaders, said Saperstein and a Justice Department official.

Holder also told the group no one should have to live and pray in fear and that he planned soon to address the issue publicly, the meeting participants said. He also reiterated a commitment to aggressively prosecute hate crimes, they said.

Dr. Ingrid Mattson, the Islamic Society of North America president who helped organize Tuesday's statement by religious leaders, said ordinary U.S. Muslims were feeling increasingly worried and harassed as they went about their daily lives.

"I have heard many Muslim-Americans say that they have never felt this anxious or this insecure in America since directly after September 11," she said.

She urged Muslims abroad to "take a step back" and not use the "loud voices of some Christian extremists" in the United States as a justification for action against American Jews and Christians.

"They do not represent America, they do not represent Christianity or Judaism," Mattson said. "These people who are here with us today represent the true values and views of the vast majority of American Jews and Christians and just American citizens."

The religious leaders did not take a stand regarding the planned cultural center and mosque near the Ground Zero site in downtown Manhattan. The Muslim cleric leading the project reasserted in a New York Times opinion piece on Tuesday that organizers would proceed with the center.

Rallies for and against the center and mosque are set for Saturday in New York after a memorial ceremony for those killed. Families of the victims were debating whether to call a truce on the anniversary, with some saying the day should be reserved for "appropriate remembrance and reflection."

Critics say the planned location two blocks from Ground Zero is insensitive, while supporters say politicians have wrongly commandeered the emotionally charged debate before U.S. congressional elections on November 2.

[John.hergy]

copied from:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100908/ap_on_re_us/quran_burning_legality_1


Florida pastor has legal right to burn Qurans

By CURT ANDERSON, AP Legal Affairs Writer Curt Anderson, Ap Legal Affairs Writer

MIAMI – A Florida pastor's plans to burn Qurans at his church on the ninth anniversary of Sept. 11 might offend and infuriate people across the world.

But legal experts say it's likely protected speech under the First Amendment unless it is used to directly intimidate someone or incite violence.

One applicable Supreme Court ruling came in 1989, when the justices struck down laws in Texas and 47 other states that prohibited desecration of the U.S. flag.

In another case in 2003, the Supreme Court struck down Virginia's broad ban on cross-burning, ruling that it did not differentiate between expressing an idea and directly threatening someone.

[John.hergy]

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/terry-jones-burning-korans-meant-warning/story?id=11578228

Terry Jones: Burning Korans 'Meant to Be a Warning'
Preacher Says Bonfire of Holy Books Will Send a Message to Muslims

By RUSSELL GOLDMAN

As far as Terry Jones is concerned, he's just supplying the kindling -- several hundred copies of the Koran, Islam's holiest book.

He said the spark was ignited nine years ago when a band of Muslim terrorists boarded planes and turned U.S. citizens into weapons against their own people.

Now, as symbol of fiery retribution, Jones plans to build a giant bonfire and set ablaze the Muslim holy book on Sept. 11.

International Burn a Koran Day has become a flashpoint. What was seen for weeks as a strange front in the culture wars, this weekend became a front in America's real war, when Gen. David Petraeus weighed in to say he believed the display would be detrimental and dangerous to U.S. troops fighting in Afghanistan.

What started as a simmering page on Facebook, Burn a Koran Day has become an international conflagration that the White House has been forced to discuss, if only to condemn.

Despite weeks of complaints -- and also, he claims, several death threats -- Jones has shown no signs of relenting.

When ABC News' "Nightline" caught up with the controversial preacher, who always keeps a pistol close at hand, he said he and his flock would consider Petraeus' advice and continue to pray about whether to go ahead with the book burning.

But, all the signs point to an inferno. There is panel truck full of wood on the Gainesville, Fla., church's 20-acre campus, as well as a clearing set aside for the fire pit. The Facebook page has more 8,000 members.

And there's the rhetoric.

"Of course it's insulting, of course it's not a nice thing to do," Jones, a former hotel manager, told "Nightline's" Terry Moran. "But this is a very dangerous religion. If we don't do it, when do we stop backing down?"

On the road leading up to the church are a series of signs that read, "Islam is of the Devil."

That also happens to be the title of Jones' book, a screed on Islam's violent history and the dangers Jones said it presents to the U.S.

As far as Jones is concerned, there is one true faith and it is Christianity. To Jones, Islam is tantamount to Satanism and Muslims are trying to force sharia -- strict religious law -- on the United States.

"This is meant to be a warning to the radical element," Jones said of Muslim extremists. "Jesus said, 'I am the only way.'"

Jones said his message was intended to be a radical response to what he sees as a radical religion.

"We feel that a radical message is necessary," he said. "We expect moderate Muslims to agree with us. ... All Christians should agree with our message that radical Islam is dangerous and we should say no to that."

A fan of Mel Gibson's "Braveheart" -- a poster of the film adorns a wall of his office -- Jones launched an online video series called the "Braveheart Show," which he uses to preach anti-Islamic sermons to an audience larger than the 50 families who belong to the church.

On Sunday, some two dozen people including children and a few Germans were in attendance at church services at Jones' Dove World Outreach Center. The subject of the sermon? International Burn a Koran Day.

[John.hergy]

copied from:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100908/ts_alt_afp/usattacksreligionislamafghanistan


Pastor defiant as Clinton slams Koran-burning

by Mike Bernos Mike Bernos

GAINESVILLE, Florida (AFP) – An evangelical pastor insisted his plans to torch the Koran would go ahead after US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton condemned the "disgraceful" burning ceremony in Florida.

The leader of the little known church found himself in the eye of a rapidly swirling storm Wednesday with several Muslim and world leaders deploring his plans as fanning flames of intolerance, as well as Muslim hatred of the United States.

Clinton was the most senior US official to speak out against the burning scheduled for the anniversary of the September 11 attacks, saying she was "heartened by the clear, unequivocal condemnation of this disrespectful, disgraceful act that has come from American religious leaders of all faiths."

The White House added its voice to warnings that the move could trigger outrage around the Islamic world and endanger the lives of US soldiers.

"It puts our troops in harm's way. And obviously any type of activity like that puts our troops in harm's way would be a concern to this administration," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Tuesday.

He was reiterating comments by top US and NATO commander in Afghanistan, General David Petraeus, who warned burning the holy book of Islam would provide propaganda for insurgents.

"It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort in Afghanistan," said Petraeus of the plan, adding that it could cause significant problems "everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community."

But a small church, the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, has vowed to mark Saturday's ninth anniversary of the September 11 attacks by burning Korans as they remember the almost 3,000 people killed by Al-Qaeda hijackers.

"We are taking his concerns very seriously," pastor Terry Jones told CNN late Tuesday, referring to Petraeus, but "we right now have plans to continue."

Although the fire authorities turned down an application a few weeks ago from Jones to hold the open-air burning ceremony, police cannot intervene until they actually light the 200 Korans.

Jones said the Koran torching aimed "to remember those who were brutally murdered on September 11," and to send a warning "to the radical element of Islam."

The voices of criticism grew into a chorus Wednesday.

Arab League chief Amr Mussa dubbed Jones a "fanatic" and told AFP he urged Americans to oppose his "destructive approach."

The Agency Coordinating Body for Afghan Relief, an umbrella group representing aid groups in Afghanistan, said civilians and its members in the war-wracked country could be killed if Jones goes ahead with his "irresponsible" plan.

A senior Muslim Brotherhood official, Essam al-Erian, said in Cairo that the outdoor Florida ceremony would be a "barbaric act reminiscent of the Inquisition" and would "increase hatred towards the United States in the Muslim world."

European Union foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton also publicly condemned the plans.

The move comes against a backdrop of Islamophobia driven by plans to build an Islamic cultural center in New York close to Ground Zero, the site where the World Trade Center stood before it was destroyed in the 2001 attacks.

US Attorney General Eric Holder met religious leaders to discuss ways of stemming the anti-Islam tide, with calls from the broad coalition of faiths to make a strong speech condemning hate crimes.

Muslim Advocates executive director Farhana Khera said after the meeting that Holder had described the Koran-burning plan as "idiotic and dangerous," but regretted the ceremony itself was not a violation of federal law.

Saturday's anniversary is set to coincide with festivities for Eid al-Fitr, which marks the end of the holy month of Ramadan, a time of prayer and fasting for nearly 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide.

Jones remained defiant. "Instead of us being blamed for what other people will do or might do, why don't we send a warning to them?" he said.

Meanwhile, religious bigotry was roundly condemned at a press conference called by the coalition of interfaith leaders meeting with Holder.

"To those who would exercise derision... bigotry, open rejection of our fellow Americans for their religious faith, I say shame on you," said prominent evangelical leader Richard Cizik.

There have already been protests in the Afghan capital Kabul and in Indonesia -- the world's largest Muslim-majority country -- against Jones's plans while Iran has warned it could unleash an uncontrolled Muslim response.

[John.hergy]

yep, yep, yep.
a true religion of peace.


"It is the duty of Muslims to react," said Mohammad Mukhtar, a cleric and candidate for the Afghan parliament in the Sept. 18 election. "When their holy book Quran gets burned in public, then there is nothing left. If this happens, I think the first and most important reaction will be that wherever Americans are seen, they will be killed. No matter where they will be in the world they will be killed."



copied from:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100908/ap_on_re_us/quran_burning?cmtnav=/mwphucmtgetnojspage/headcontent/main/apquran_burning//date/desc/100/s26467307#mwpphu-container



Fla. minister: Sept. 11 Quran burn still planned


By MITCH STACY, Associated Press Writer Mitch Stacy, Associated Press Writer

GAINESVILLE, Fla. – The leader of a small Florida church that espouses anti-Islam philosophy said Wednesday he was determined to go through with his plan to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11, despite pressure from the White House, religious leaders and others to call it off.

"We are still determined to do it, yes," the Rev. Terry Jones told the CBS Early Show.

Jones says he has received more than 100 death threats and has started wearing a .40-caliber pistol strapped to his hip since announcing his plan to burn the book Muslims consider the word of God and insist be treated with the utmost respect. The 58-year-old minister proclaimed in July that he would stage "International Burn-a-Quran Day."

Supporters have been mailing copies of the holy text to his Gainesville church of about 50 followers to be incinerated in a bonfire on Saturday to mark the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. and NATO commander in Kabul, took the rare step of a military leader taking a position on a domestic matter when he warned in an e-mail to The Associated Press that "images of the burning of a Quran would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan — and around the world — to inflame public opinion and incite violence."

Petraeus spoke Wednesday with Afghan President Karzai about the matter, according to a military spokesman Col. Erik Gunhus. "They both agreed that burning of a Quran would undermine our effort in Afghanistan, jeopardize the safety of coalition troopers and civilians," Gunhus said, and would "create problems for our Afghan partners ... as it likely would be Afghan police and soldiers who would have to deal with any large demonstrations."

Jones responded that he is also concerned but is "wondering, 'When do we stop?'" He refused to cancel the protest at his Dove World Outreach Center but said he was still praying about it.

"How much do we back down? How many times do we back down?" Jones told the AP. "Instead of us backing down, maybe it's time to stand up. Maybe it's time to send a message to radical Islam that we will not tolerate their behavior."

Jones gained some local notoriety last year when he posted signs in front of his church declaring "Islam is of the Devil." But his Quran-burning idea attracted wider attention. It drew rebukes from Muslim nations and at home as an emotional debate was taking shape over the proposed Islamic center near the ground zero site of the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York.

His actions likely would be protected by the First Amendment's right to free speech. The U.S. Supreme Court has made clear that speech deemed offensive to many people, even the majority of people, cannot be suppressed by the government unless it is clearly directed to intimidate someone or amounts to an incitement to violence, legal experts said.

The Vatican on Wednesday denounced the planned Quran burning as "outrageous and grave."

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder during a meeting Tuesday with religious leaders to discuss recent attacks on Muslims and mosques around the U.S. called the planned burning idiotic and dangerous, according to a Justice Department official. The official requested anonymity because the meeting was private.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton added her disapproval at a dinner in observance of Iftar, the breaking of the daily fast during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

"I am heartened by the clear, unequivocal condemnation of this disrespectful, disgraceful act that has come from American religious leaders of all faiths," Clinton said.

David Axelrod, senior adviser to President Barack Obama told CNN Wednesday morning: "The reverend may have the right to do what he's doing but it's not right. It's not consistent with our values ... I hope that his conscience and his good sense will take hold."

Staffan de Mistura, head of the United Nations Mission in Afghanistan, expressed concern and outrage "in the strongest possible terms," and added, "If such an abhorrent act were to be implemented, it would only contribute to fueling the arguments of those who are indeed against peace and reconciliation in Afghanistan."

Local religious leaders in this progressive Florida city of 125,000 anchored by the sprawling University of Florida campus also criticized the lanky preacher with the bushy white mustache. At least two dozen Christian churches, Jewish temples and Muslim organizations in the city have mobilized to plan inclusive events — some will read from the Quran at their own weekend services. A student group is organizing a protest across the street from the church on Saturday.

Gainesville's new mayor, Craig Lowe, who during his campaign became the target of a Jones-led protest because he is openly gay, has declared Sept. 11 Interfaith Solidarity Day in the city.

The fire department has denied Jones a required burn permit, but he said lawyers have told him he has the right to burn the Qurans, with or without the city's permission.

In Afghanistan, Jones' planned burning continued to provoke outrage.

"It is the duty of Muslims to react," said Mohammad Mukhtar, a cleric and candidate for the Afghan parliament in the Sept. 18 election. "When their holy book Quran gets burned in public, then there is nothing left. If this happens, I think the first and most important reaction will be that wherever Americans are seen, they will be killed. No matter where they will be in the world they will be killed."

Kabul resident, Rajab Ali said, "If this (burning of the Quran) happens there will be chaos in Afghanistan and being a Muslim, if we don't defend the Quran then what else we can do?"

The Quran, according to Jones, is "evil" because it espouses something other than biblical truth and incites radical, violent behavior among Muslims.

Muslims consider the Quran along with any printed material containing its verses or the name of Allah or the Prophet Muhammad to be sacred. Any intentional damage or show of disrespect Quran is deeply offensive.

Jones' Dove Outreach Center is independent of any denomination. It follows the Pentecostal tradition, which teaches that the Holy Spirit can manifest itself in the modern day. Pentecostals often view themselves as engaged in spiritual warfare against satanic forces.